Screw you, Virtual Console.

[Blix]

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

*brings out a doll*

Okay everyone, tell me where Nintendo touched you.

Yeah this horse was already buried but for some reason, it got dug out and now they're beating it again. Nintendo has a sucky DRM system, it's old news, don't support it if you don't like it, period. And it's hard to believe that some people just found out now. Even if you have not been reading too much this was fairly common knowledge back when the Wii first came out. After the firs page it was already discussed enough but I come back here one day or so later and there's another full page filled with paragraphs-long posts. Either you're willing to go with it or you're not. I've always only bought a console once and rarely ever got to replace it and I always keep them even after a new console is out so I don't care too much about it even though I still think it's retarded.

And KG, go check the Jim Sterling video again. Just go straight into the 5:24 mark if you don't have time for this. MS does support it through the group that they're part of. They just weren't dumb enough to actually put their names directly in the SOPA law. But MS AND APPLE both indirectly support it. They just know how to be discrete. And I don't have time to give you more info about it.

[KillerGremlin]

There was talk of Nintendo remedying the issue when it was first brought up, way back when the Wii and Virtual Console were new hat. I believe Nintendo has the programmers who could address the issue with software updates. It's not like I'm the first person to raise this point. Raising the same point in the future is fair; companies adapt and make changes and improvements all the time. Well, most companies.

Originally Posted by Angrist

But with the current situation... If I want to play a game, I'll find a used copy for the same price... but I'll be able to sell it later on.

Used NES/SNES/N64 games? I don't find the pursuit to be worthwhile. I could spend hours of my life hunting a game down on Ebay. Or I could spend 4 seconds emulating it. If Nintendo had a better VC Library and at a lower price...I'd probably just buy it because I enjoy the TV setup and the nostalgia.



There is an interesting paradigm shift in gaming. Some websites now sell old computer games - often optimized to work on Vista or Win 7 - for reasonable prices. GOG comes to mind. On one hand...I love the fact that I can go and purchase the old games that defined my childhood. On the other hand, I think it raises an interesting copyright dilemma.

Are video games like books? Will there be a library of video games someday?

I guess my question is: emulating a video game doesn't require labor costs, kind of like digital books. If I bought a paperback Mark Twain book, even if he is dead, there are still publishing costs and paper costs.

There are ZERO manufacturing costs to copy software. Well...not exactly zero...bandwidth and server space....but nearly zero. So the question is, should I pay for a Mark Twain book if it is digitally available? Mark Twain is dead. He doesn't receive a penny for his work. And the old publisher model is outdated. Sorry paper company, go fuck yourself. Let's save some trees.

If there is no middle man (paper, book, binding, publishing rights, shipping costs) and Mark Twain is dead...who gets money for the digital copy of the book? And why should they get money? Does his family get money? Do the publishers? What's the dillio?

[Storm Eagle]

Originally Posted by Blix

Yeah this horse was already buried but for some reason, it got dug out and now they're beating it again. Nintendo has a sucky DRM system, it's old news, don't support it if you don't like it, period. And it's hard to believe that some people just found out now. Even if you have not been reading too much this was fairly common knowledge back when the Wii first came out. After the firs page it was already discussed enough but I come back here one day or so later and there's another full page filled with paragraphs-long posts. Either you're willing to go with it or you're not. I've always only bought a console once and rarely ever got to replace it and I always keep them even after a new console is out so I don't care too much about it even though I still think it's retarded.

The whole thing is just overwhelming is all. So did this whole board just go anti-Nintendo or something?

[Blix]

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

The whole thing is just overwhelming is all. So did this whole board just go anti-Nintendo or something?

I'm not blaming you. And I believe, lately, some members in the forums just want to see who they can get butt hurt. It's just entertainment for them. There's a term for that behavior but it eludes me at the moment.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Blix

I'm not blaming you. And I believe, lately, some members in the forums just want to see who they can get butt hurt. It's just entertainment for them. There's a term for that behavior but it eludes me at the moment.

Don't you think you're being a little unfair? I mean, I honestly didn't know this was the case in regard to Nintendo's DRM policy - it was new news to me. I think this is a legitimate issue, especially when none of Nintendo's competitors have a similar policy. I understand your frustration with re-litigating an issue, but I do think it's a valid one.

[KillerGremlin]

Well, this forum is the spawn of Nintendojo and the Nintendo Dolphin. So lots of Nintendo love here. Sometimes I forget that pointing out any criticism - even if it is perfectly legit and valid - goes against the forum policy of having nothing but love for Nintendo.

I confess I am stirring the shit pot and I do that quite often. But you all would be boring if I didn't stir the shit pot. But I'm just as much a Nintendo fanboy as I am a Nintendo troll. I've owned Nintendo consoles my entire life. I've stuck through the Gamecube and Wii era, and I'll probably get a Wii-U. I'm a devout Mario and Zelda fan, and I love the rare moments when Nintendo innovates out of the water; Metroid Prime, Pikmin. Sure, I am anything but objective. I probably pick on Nintendo more than a lot of other things. So I'll grant you that.

But, your honor, if I may present further evidence. I totally rip on PC gaming, Xbox and Xbox Live, and the PS3. All the time. Look at my track record here. I complain about all 3 crappy consoles equally. Xbox Live is bloated and has way too much DLC. PS3 is expensive and has way too many sequels. I constantly rip on Halo and Grand Theft Auto and other popular titles. I don't see any Nintendo fanboys jumping in those threads and telling me I'm a flamer or a troll.

Name me a game and odds are I've said mean things about it. When sites like IGN hand 10/10s to every game nowadays we need less people to say nice things about games and more people to point out their shortcomings. I mostly enjoy games for what they are: a fun experience. I enjoyed Super Mario Galaxy 2, for example. But that doesn't change the fact that the game is practically an expansion to the original. See? Enjoyment meets fair criticism. And IGN blew it, if I recall correctly. Nintendo has their happy ending, IGN ends up with a mouthfull of Nintendo spunk, and i get to be an ass which is fun.

I think this thread is pretty legit. Because it is genuine. I didn't post this thread to flame or start some "Nintendo war." I love Nintendo. But for real....my family got a Wii a long time ago, and I sunk money into the Virtual Console. When the Virtual Console was new, I knew you couldn't transfer games. I figured Nintendo would fix this issue like Xbox Live updates or Sony patches their firmware. Pretty typical stuff. And I never expected my GF to get a Wii. Nintendo hasn't fixed it, despite some talk that they would. They actually have regressed in some of their views on DRM and where the hell is Nintendo's online gaming!!!! What year is it?

So now that it is a few years later, I have new found disgust for Nintendo's antiquated DRM and crappy online policy. If you think this is a poor criticism than touche. But I hope I'm entitled to my own opinion, without being called a "troll" or "flamer" because I disagree with your hardcore love for Nintendo.

Even though I'm a huge PC gamer, I didn't get irate or pissy over this thread:
http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21952

I found the above thread amusing, and full of truths. I know how to laugh at hyperbole and embellished criticism. I take my internet with a grain of salt and lots of porn.

So I want to end my post with a typical "me" comment:

The difference between Nintendo gamers and Xbox Live gamers? They both troll and they are both horrible parts of gaming culture. But the Xbox gamers actually get laid, and the Nintendo gamers just pine and get all defensive. Nintendo gamers need to harden the eff up.

[Typhoid]

All I can say is:


lol@notbeingabletotakethethingsyourightfullypaidfor.


Maybe you should blow in it. Jiggle the cord!


Edit: Okay, i've got no actual help or advice on the OP. In Nintendo's defense not allowing you to move the files ensures nobody will steal/pirate them. That went well for them, right?


Edited Edit:

There are ZERO manufacturing costs to copy software. Well...not exactly zero...bandwidth and server space....but nearly zero. So the question is, should I pay for a Mark Twain book if it is digitally available? Mark Twain is dead. He doesn't receive a penny for his work. And the old publisher model is outdated. Sorry paper company, go fuck yourself. Let's save some trees.

If there is no middle man (paper, book, binding, publishing rights, shipping costs) and Mark Twain is dead...who gets money for the digital copy of the book? And why should they get money? Does his family get money? Do the publishers? What's the dillio?

I 100% agree.

I also find the idea of a video game library excellent, if not already somewhat existent. I do think that in the future (when cars fly and food is in pill form) older games [let's say this gen and back] will be free for the exact reason you stated. Although they'll all obviously be digital.

[Blix]

Well, I don't know if you remember me from advancegb.com but I know you from back then and I know you well and I know you're objective. So no problem with your criticism or anything, but in the last couple of days it seemed all you did was try to get reactions from Nintendo fans, one attempt after another. And I just started to think that you were just bored and trying to have fun at someone else's expense. So I just stopped taking your comments seriously. I didn't even see it as you trying to be an ass but just saying them in jest and I decided to point it out just to avoid having others "fall for it." It helped that I didn't really take your EA and Nintendo comparison seriously as I didn't really agree with it. The motion control thread also didn't convince me.

As for the criticism itself I don't even disagree with it, I just noticed that you kept going and then everyone joined in and I really didn't think the subject merits that much anger. I haven't bought a single game from the virtual console since Megaman 9. And I just had to play that game and didn't have a PS3 or 360 at the time. But until Nintendo gets its act straight, then they better not count with me spending money on downloads for their platform.
This is from a thread I made a long time ago where I pointed this flaw in Nintendo's policy:

Policies is the one argument I can understand most. These vary from company to company but while most of the times these policies are understandable, they can at times be a little too restrictive or even unfair. Someone who comes to mind here is Nintendo on the DSi. Whenever you buy something off the DSiware service, you can only play it on the DSi you bought it from. Nintendo claims that you buy the license which permits you to play the game, but not the game itself. So if you buy a new game and download to your DSi but later buy a new one and would like to play it on that one you can't take the game with you. In steam, for example, whenever you buy a game you can download it to any other computer as long as you log in to your steam account using the steam client.

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20414

I actually like all of the platforms and have complains about everyone of them too. I just didn't feel you were happy just with making your point but kept going after that.

And Bond, if you truly didn't know that until now, then my bad. I just really considered this common knowledge and thought you were just being sarcastic. So no need to say only good things about Nintendo. But now I'm assured this is actually a legitimate discussion. And to be honest, gekko's thread about the Halo Anniversary eating his save didn't get everyone on the hate halo bandwagon or anything, and (although I haven't been reading every single thread on GT) I haven't really seen anyone jump in any hate bandwagon towards non Nintendo consoles. I think everyone enjoys every console on this forum.