Paul Ryan

[Professor S]

By the way, let's not think that Ryan was the only misleading speaker at a convention. Pres. Clinton was pretty good at that too...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories...824_Page2.html

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

By the way, let's not think that Ryan was the only misleading speaker at a convention. Pres. Clinton was pretty good at that too...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories...824_Page2.html

Do you really think that's just as bad as what Ryan did?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Do you really think that's just as bad as what Ryan did?

I suppose "bad" is a matter of opinion, and what you view as important/impactful. As I mentioned above, the omissions and misleading statements made by Clinton about Ryan were pretty "bad", IMO. He insinuated that Ryan's plan simply cuts funds from Medicare (because he is a cruel, heartless Republican), and never mentioned that the funds would actually be moved from Medicare Part A to the Medicare trust fund to help keep it solvent. The full truth actually supports the Ryan claim that their plan would help preserve Medicare, and "Obamacare" pulls future $ from Medicare to fund the ACA.

And for the record, the plant Ryan talked about was still technically open after Pres. Obama was elected, but it was on "stand-by". It was never put back in operation and remained on "stand-by" when Pres. Obama made these comments:

"I believe if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years,"

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz25nJD1aN6

The plant has not been re-opened, even after the GM bailout and debt restructuring. All the pundits and talking heads have claimed this does not constitute a "promise", but I'll leave it to your own judgements as to whether or not what Ryan claimed was an egregious lie.

In the end, it's politics. Both parties are going to spin facts to meet their goals and opinions. Saying one does so more than the other is splitting hairs.

[Vampyr]

In the end, it's politics. Both parties are going to spin facts to meet their goals and opinions. Saying one does so more than the other is splitting hairs.

It depends on how much more. If one person tells one lie and another person tells 100 lies, that's pretty significant.

Just compare the fact check articles on Ryan's speech vs. Clinton's speech. I mean, even Fox was calling Ryan out on what he said.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

It depends on how much more. If one person tells one lie and another person tells 100 lies, that's pretty significant.

Just compare the fact check articles on Ryan's speech vs. Clinton's speech. I mean, even Fox was calling Ryan out on what he said.

I'm not trying to say that Ryan didn't exaggerate or mislead, but I think people are exaggerating Ryan's exaggerations, and downplaying those from the Democrat convention, as I pointed out in my last post. Read the whole article on Clinton's speech. There is more than one exaggeration and half-truth and the ntire speech was based on them. Also, his speech was incredibly effective because of it.

As you say, compare the fact checking on all the speeches and make your own conclusions. I recommend FactCheck.org for a truly unbiased account. The Politico article on Clinton's speech I posted is pretty good as well.

To be honest, the "fact checking" that has been done by most news organizations has been awful on all sides and for both conventions. American news is dead. We're on our own.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I'm not trying to say that Ryan didn't exaggerate or mislead, but I think people are exaggerating Ryan's exaggerations, and downplaying those from the Democrat convention, as I pointed out in my last post. Read the whole article on Clinton's speech. There is more than one exaggeration and half-truth and the ntire speech was based on them. Also, his speech was incredibly effective because of it.

As you say, compare the fact checking on all the speeches and make your own conclusions. I recommend FactCheck.org for a truly unbiased account. The Politico article on Clinton's speech I posted is pretty good as well.

To be honest, the "fact checking" that has been done by most news organizations has been awful on all sides and for both conventions. American news is dead. We're on our own.

I actually am referring to factcheck.org articles on the two speeches, not other ones on different news sites. Ryan's is pretty insane.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I actually am referring to factcheck.org articles on the two speeches, not other ones on different news sites. Ryan's is pretty insane.

Well, if you think the scenario I described surrounding Ryan's comments about the GM plant in Wisconsin is an example of an "insane" lie, then I'm sure you would feel that way.