Don't believe in God? Why not? - Page 3

Xantar · 02-05-2002, 10:53 AM

Well, PureEvil did a pretty good job summing up my own thoughts (which means he understands my post or has a telepathic link to my head...). I just want to make one more point.

A logical reason for not believing in God? I don't think there is any such reason any more there is a logical reason for believing in God.

Now, before you jump on me, let me explain. You may think God's existence makes sense, and that's fine. It's not the same thing as having a logical reason for believing in God. Doesn't belief in God imply a little bit of faith in something you can't really see and experiment on?

Here's a surprise for you: atheism has a little bit of faith too. I believe that the answers to all the questions BigJustinW raised can be stated without the involvement of God. As Justin already pointed out, nobody knows how the universe got started. As I have pointed out, there was a time when nobody knew why things fall. Just because we don't know it now doesn't mean it's not out there. I believe that with enough time we will develop a theory for the creation of the universe just as we developed a theory of gravity. Why do I believe this? There's no logical reason for it. It just makes sense to me. That's what some people would call faith.

No, I don't go out of my way trying to find out everything I can about Christianity because figuring out the existence of God is not important to me. I don't want to sound insulting, but to me, Christianity has as much validity as the cult of Heaven's Gate. I don't go out of my way to find stuff about the beliefs of minor cults, and I apply the same standard to Christianity. Just because it has several hundred million followers doesn't make it any more worthwhile for me to read up on.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez

OH and Xantar, stop being so god damn perfect. I mean we all understand how you are so godamnned black christingly smart, so just like chill out and say some crap like I do

Shut up.

C.H · 02-05-2002, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Ibrox Fox
This has been discussed before.

So Mods, Delete this.

It gets to personal

Yea, last time there was a thread like this. There was to many stupid arguments, i think this subject should just be left alone because people can't disscuss it properly.

Happydude · 02-05-2002, 02:41 PM

ok...lets hear my side of the story...shall we?

i don't believe in god because:

1. IMO - he was invented (made up) by some guy, posobly named jesus, to keep his village or whatever civilized, peacful...so he said "god" doesnt allow to do this and that...

2. like Xantar said, it can't, and hasn't been proven scientifically...which is what i believe in...

3. no offence to anyone...i personally believe more in satan then i do in god...look at all the bad things happening...yet there are no good things...try explaining that for a change...

4. and last but not least....STOP TYPING SO MUCH XANTAR!!!

BigJustinW · 02-05-2002, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xantar
Well, PureEvil did a pretty good job summing up my own thoughts (which means he understands my post or has a telepathic link to my head...). I just want to make one more point.

A logical reason for not believing in God? I don't think there is any such reason any more there is a logical reason for believing in God.

So you admit you don't have a logical reason for not believeing in god...

My logic comes by personal experiece, somthing that nobody who doesn't take any steps can have.

I live life through MY eyes... use magic as an example. If you say the magic words over and over and over, the same thing happens over and over and over, and there is no scientific explination for it, it just happens, and you see it. Would you believe in that form of magic?

My belief has never failed me, so why should I stop believeing?

It may not be logical to you, but it has more than enough logic for me, because I've seen results with my own eyes.

How does this relate to creation? Simple, it's in the same book that has improved my life.

So once again, what personal experiences and/or things you know make you believe that God doesn't exist?

Quote:

Now, before you jump on me, let me explain. You may think God's existence makes sense, and that's fine. It's not the same thing as having a logical reason for believing in God. Doesn't belief in God imply a little bit of faith in something you can't really see and experiment on?

I can experiment as much as I want... through prayer... (of course you won't accept this answer)

Quote:

Here's a surprise for you: atheism has a little bit of faith too. I believe that the answers to all the questions BigJustinW raised can be stated without the involvement of God. As Justin already pointed out, nobody knows how the universe got started. As I have pointed out, there was a time when nobody knew why things fall. Just because we don't know it now doesn't mean it's not out there. I believe that with enough time we will develop a theory for the creation of the universe just as we developed a theory of gravity. Why do I believe this? There's no logical reason for it. It just makes sense to me. That's what some people would call faith.

Before the theory of gravity, what did people believe?

That there is a big magnet under there feet or somthing? lol

They just knew somthing, but they didn't want to find an explination for it. Religion is a form of attempting to find an explination for everything.

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No, I don't go out of my way trying to find out everything I can about Christianity because figuring out the existence of God is not important to me. I don't want to sound insulting, but to me, Christianity has as much validity as the cult of Heaven's Gate. I don't go out of my way to find stuff about the beliefs of minor cults, and I apply the same standard to Christianity. Just because it has several hundred million followers doesn't make it any more worthwhile for me to read up on.

Do you know what Hell is? Do you want to go there? If not, what is there to lose from trying to learn about christianity??? Or any religion for that matter???

Here's my personal list

What to lose by reading the Bible: A little time

What to gain: Saving yourself from an eternity in Hell

If you read it, comprehend it, and still don't believe it, then you can say that you don't believe... and have a LOGICAL REASON to back it up. Like: "I read it, I tried it, and I don't believe it, period"

As long as you don't give it a chance, you have everything to lose, and nothing to gain. It's not like scientists will have any answers in your life time anyway.

DeathsHand · 02-05-2002, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJustinW
What to lose by reading the Bible: A little time

What to gain: Saving yourself from an eternity in Hell

That saving yourself from an eternity in hell thing doesn't really have any effect as a reason for a non-believer to read the bible or whatever... Because if they don't believe it, they probably don't believe about the eternity of hell thing...

Xantar · 02-05-2002, 03:46 PM

True fact: there are is a cult that believes things like if people who look at the moon over their left shoulder will be damned eternally (yes, it's also a superstition, but there really is a small cult built around things like that). Should I go read up on the literature published by that cult in order to determine if what they say makes sense?

To me, Christianity and that cult share many of the same qualities and are both not worthwhile investigations for me. I have better things to do.

Quote:

I live life through MY eyes... use magic as an example. If you say the magic words over and over and over, the same thing happens over and over and over, and there is no scientific explination for it, it just happens, and you see it. Would you believe in that form of magic?

If I saw it, then perhaps I would. It depends on the magic.

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My belief has never failed me, so why should I stop believeing?

I never said you should. Believe it or not, I think it's great that you have such confidence in your beliefs. But I'm supposed to be the one on the spot here, so please don't start acting as if I'm attacking your religion.

And at any rate, my beliefs have never failed me, so why should I stop believing them?

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It may not be logical to you, but it has more than enough logic for me, because I've seen results with my own eyes.

How does this relate to creation? Simple, it's in the same book that has improved my life.

But you see, that doesn't work for me. If the Bible happens to contain something that's true, that doesn't mean the entire thing is true. That's not logic. The only way to logically prove that everything in the Bible is literally true is either to take each thing individually and prove it or prove the theory that it was written by God (or written by a man inspired by God). And since there is no way to prove the existence of God, there is no way to prove that the Bible was written/inspired by God.

Of course, there's no way to prove that it wasn't either—especially if you believe it was written by a fallible man. So if you believe in the Bible, by all means do so.

Quote:

So once again, what personal experiences and/or things you know make you believe that God doesn't exist?

Didn't I just make a 500-something word post explaning this? I don't believe what hasn't been proven to me, and as I've already explained, there is no way you or anyone else can prove to me that God exists.

Quote:

Before the theory of gravity, what did people believe?

That there is a big magnet under there feet or somthing? lol

They just knew somthing, but they didn't want to find an explination for it. Religion is a form of attempting to find an explination for everything.

Well, apply my logic to the situation. I say that someday, people will say, "Before the theory of the universe, what did people believe? That this all powerful, all knowing God created the universe or something?"

Religion may be a form of attempting to find an explanation for everything, but that doesn't make it any more valid in my eyes. Besides, not all religions are like that.

bobcat · 02-05-2002, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fez
Personal? I only hope that all god people die. And agnostics. Losers..*

*No.

I don't believe in god, and I hate religion in a way...but who cares. Really. **** this crap about God..have fun. it's what we were put here for eh.

OH and Xantar, stop being so god damn perfect. I mean we all understand how you are so godamnned black christingly smart, so just like chill out and say some crap like I do.*

*I love you.

You said god damn hehe ..........

TheGrimReaper · 02-05-2002, 04:17 PM

People are gonna reply somehow to this post, but we cannot simply keep this conversation going, without replying to each others posts. We have no new information, therefore we cannot continue the discussion.

IMO though, I beleive in God. I chose to by my own accord, and by personal reasons. If people choose not to beleive in him, fine. I have no beef with you. The people I DO have beef with, are the people that accuse people of going to hell for eternity or whatever

02-05-2002, 04:26 PM

First everyone believed in many gods.

Then on the ancient Internet some guy started a topic saying there's only one god.

After a while everyone believed in one god and those who still believed in many were booted offline.

Why did people's beliefs change? Was there any real proof to switch from praying to one god to many?

Next everyone's going to start worshipping a bunny with a stick jabbed up his ass carried around by his prophet who telepathic sends out pornographic images to those who believe. If you sinned then no porno for you.
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If God has always been around then why did it take so long for people to worship only the one god. Why didn't he say something sooner. Hit the snooze on the cosmic alarm clock and decided to do it later?
____________________________________________________________

And if there are so many planets out there (many with life) do they get into heaven. Would about Mr. Fluffy, the three-legged gerbil? Does he go to heaven? If God created the universe and Earth is 4.5 billion years old, humans only being on it a fraction of that time, did God one day say: Hmmm, I'll create a nice little paradise after this species dies so they can still mingle and drink their starbucks after they fudge up their physical body?
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I'm not trying to be rude but besides the scientific evidence which I didn't go into at all, there's just too many loop holes to believe in this.

*What I think: Everything is made off energy. That can be your "god" so to speak. Everthing is a part of everything is a part of everything. I just don't buy the separate life form who controls everything. The Force mentioned in Star Wars seems much more practical.

DeathsHand · 02-05-2002, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danchastu
I'm not trying to be rude but besides the scientific evidence which I didn't go into at all, there's just too many loop holes to believe in this.

Yeah see, that is how I feel... that's kinda what I meant by "None of it makes sense to me"... at least I think I said that... and if I didn't well heh heh heh *runs away*

gekko · 02-05-2002, 04:35 PM

I believe in God. I do not believe he placed anything on this Earth. I believe in evolution, but something had to create that ball of energy. Matter is never created nor destroyed, some something had to put it there.

The Bible is a book about morals. Funny, because a lot of the stuff in the bible is made up. Garden of Eden... doesn't exist. Nice story until we got satellites and looked all over Egypt. It ain't there. Oh ya, and Apples can't grow in that region, so don't think they ate from an Apple tree. How do people still believe in it? They say if God doesn't want you to find it, you won't. Seems to me that ran out of answers.

That brings me to my next point. Religion is a way to explain the unexplained. Always has been. Look at Greek mythology. Back then science couldn't explain as many things. What causes lightning? The great God Zeus, obviously! Now we shrunk it down to one God, and have the same idea. What we can't explain, we use religion to answer. Such as what started the world, and where we go after we die.

Also, in many cases, Christianity contradicts itself. I just need to listen in church more to find them all. One example is how they God can forgive any sin. Then they go on to say some sins God can't forgive, and you will go to hell. Logically, it makes no sense. So you need to question religion. It is really true, or a way of explaining the unexplained, and scaring society into behaving morally?

02-05-2002, 04:43 PM

Gekko has a perfect explanation there. I just hate to refer to it as "god" because of the images that pop into my head.

BlueFire · 02-05-2002, 04:54 PM

I believe in God. I believe that the universe wasn't just there....What made that small star that made up our whole universe? I believe that there is something after we have that final breath...

BigJustinW · 02-05-2002, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gekko
Also, in many cases, Christianity contradicts itself. I just need to listen in church more to find them all. One example is how they God can forgive any sin. Then they go on to say some sins God can't forgive, and you will go to hell.

That's not true... God forgives when you ask for forgiveness, there is only one case in which God can't forgive you, when you kill yourself, because you can't ask for forgiveness after you are already dead, can you?

Now give another example of contradiction.

02-05-2002, 05:01 PM

How about if you kill yourself, doctors bring you back for a few secs and you ask for
forgiveness, and then die?

Or ask for forgiveness for the sin you're about to commit?

If you believe in an afterlife then why no ask there?

How exactly do you ask? Verbally? Mentally?

Is there a questioner that must be filled out? And in 3-4 weeks God will get back to you on your question but instead of an answer receive coupons for celestial orange juice?