Religion

[Angrist]

Hey aren't you surprised to have a Jehovah's Witness among you???

About those 'contradictions': Some writers give more or less details than others. They sometimes use different ways of telling the same story. Most 'contradicions' can be solved like that. Call it cheap, but it works.

I've never found any controdictions in the bible. Sometimes things require some investment, but you'll find out that they make perfect sense.

Isn't it amazing that the more than 40 writers of the bible, of who most of them didn't know eachother, write so many things that agree with eachother???

The Quran is written by one person (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I'm not), it's not that hard to write a convincing book as when you have 40+ writers.

Edit: The bible is also a lot older.

[manasecret]

Before I start I'm not trying to say that what you believe is wrong, I'm simply saying that I personally don't consider it proof that the Qur'aan came from Allah. I respect what you believe.

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
Sorry, but NOTHING was manipulated! Please read the part about that again.

The sent down is a thing in brackets, not the actual translation... Hence it helps to expand the meaning to the common reader... I don't know where you got the idea from that words were manipulated. That's the miracle, and beauty of the Qur'aan, it's so simple, yet has an almost limitless depth of wisdom and information.

I don't see what's so roundabout about anything, even very famous, non-muslim astronomers, geologists, etc seem to marvel at how accurate, AND DETAILED the scientific details are in the Qur'aan. None of what is said in the Qur'aan could have come from human sources, totally impossible (which is also said by numerous scientists)... The only place those words in the Qur'aan came from is from a higher being, one that actually created the universe, one that knows the ins and outs of how things were made.

That's just the thing, "sent down" is not the actual translation yet they put it there to help "expand the meaning." To me that means manipulate it. Like I said, the Qur'aan doesn't explicitly say that something like "Because our Sun is not hot enough to produce Iron, Iron was sent to Earth from other stars beyond our galaxy because, as they burn much much hotter, they were able to create Iron." It says something that you have to read into beyond the literal in order to get that it "predicted" that's what happened.

Another example, and excerpt from the Qur'aan that I got from the "Creation of Man" article:

"Man we did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then we placed as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a place firmly fixed; Then we made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (‘alaqah); Then of that clot we made a (fetus) lump (mudghah); then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature."

I admit it sounds convincing the way they explain it, but literally it says man was made from clay and went through different stages that don't actually explicitly explain the processes. You have to look past the literal to find that it could stand for all the stages of birth.

My point is, it takes faith to believe that the Qur'aan was made by God, and to me personally things such as what the articles say aren't absolute proof.

If you have any contradictions in the Qur'aan, or any questions, then bring them forth, because Allah has challenged anyone to make even a chapter like it, yet no one has succeeded.

And, if you have any more time, I strongly suggest you look at the stages of the human development article...

As I said, I don't have any contradictions to present. I'm confused by what "Allah has challenged anyone to make even a chapter like it, yet no one has succeeded" means. Like the Qur'aan how? I just don't get that statement.

Could you please expand on that, I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say..?

In the "What is Islam?" article, it gives a list of what "the true faithful Muslim believes," which is what I was referring to. I believe in a God but I don't believe in what that says I must believe about God (such as there is only one true God).

The list:
"The true faithful Muslim believes in the following principal articles of faith:

Belief in one God (Allah), Supreme and Eternal, Infinite and Mighty, Merciful and Forgiving, the Creator and the Provider, He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none equal or comparable unto Him.

Belief in all Messengers of Allah (Ar-Rusul) without any discrimination among them, as every known nation had a Warner or Messenger from Allah. They were chosen by Allah to teach humanity and deliver His Divine message. The Qur'aan mentions the names of some of them, and Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) stands as the Last Messenger and the crowning glory of the foundation of prophethood.

Belief in all original scriptures and revelations of Allah (Al-Kutub), accepting them as the guiding light that the messengers received to show their respective people the right path to Him. In the Qur'aan, special reference is made to the books of Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus (‘alaihimus salaam), but long before the revelation of the Qur'aan to .... "

And so on.

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by Angrist
Hey aren't you surprised to have a Jehovah's Witness among you???

About those 'contradictions': Some writers give more or less details than others. They sometimes use different ways of telling the same story. Most 'contradicions' can be solved like that. Call it cheap, but it works.

I've never found any controdictions in the bible. Sometimes things require some investment, but you'll find out that they make perfect sense.

Isn't it amazing that the more than 40 writers of the bible, of who most of them didn't know eachother, write so many things that agree with eachother???

The Quran is written by one person (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I'm not), it's not that hard to write a convincing book as when you have 40+ writers.

Then how come so much priests are becoming Muslims and writing articles which refute christianity?

And prove the refutations wrong.

I will repeat again, the bibles is full of contradictions, but if these contradictions are just made up by people, then please prove me wrong-I only posted one refutation, because there's no point in posting too much on it, when the first refutation cant be disproved.

[Angrist]

You have to understand that there are many believes withing chritianity. Some believes don't make much sense, because they can't answer most of the harder questions about the bible.

That doesn't mean the bible is wrong. We Jehovah's Witnesses have made a HUGE study on the bible, and we've discovered a lot of things that other believes don't know or believe. Things like you don't go to heaven or hell when you die. In fact, there is no burning hell. There is a heaven, but only 144,000 go there to (int he future) rule the earth together with Christ our King. Who do they rule?
Us, the normal people who lived a good life and deserve to live in a paradise, a paradise as God intended to make in the first place.

Things like that make the bible a lot more clear.

Oh yeah, the bible often uses illustrations. Things that didn't really happen. That can also seem to cause contradictions.

[Almansurah]

[b]That's just the thing, "sent down" is not the actual translation yet they put it there to help "expand the meaning." To me that means manipulate it. Like I said, the Qur'aan doesn't explicitly say that something like "Because our Sun is not hot enough to produce Iron, Iron was sent to Earth from other stars beyond our galaxy because, as they burn much much hotter, they were able to create Iron." It says something that you have to read into beyond the literal in order to get that it "predicted" that's what happened.[b]

The original language of the Qur'an is Arabic.

The Verse you're referring to is the following:



The meaning of the arabic 'Wa Anzal Hadeed' is literally to the nearest meaning 'And We brought forth iron.'

The translation the other member put was:

I have revealed (sent down) iron

They both mean the same thing. That Allah sent down iron. The Arabic is translated to English in different ways, some in classical English, whilst some is in standard English, but the meaning still doesn't change. But the best way to see the meaning of a verse, is to read up the tafseer [explanation] as well, and this clarifys everything.

And it isn't manipulating it.

The Qur'an doesn't have to explain everything in scientific detail to the dot, it is not a scientific book, it is a book which contains scientific details, in order to show man/woman that Islam predicted various things 1400 years ago, which are now becoming apparent, and true.

The Qur'an as stated by a previous member is a book to set a way of life for Muslims, and set commands and prohibitions, and just use it as a manual in our life-because it is the word of God.

[Joeiss]

Originally posted by Angrist
The Quran is written by one person (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I'm not), it's not that hard to write a convincing book as when you have 40+ writers.

Edit: The bible is also a lot older.

Well technically, the Qu'ran might have been written by several people... But Muhammod memorized it, and passed it down to his people.

And yes, the bible is about 600 years older I think. But, if you are a Muslim, this is the way that it was meant to be. This is because Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, and he was just spreading Allah's word. Jesus' best teaching was "Treat others as you would like to be treated" (at least that is what I think that Muslims believe his best teaching was).

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by Joeiss
Well technically, the Qu'ran might have been written by several people... But Muhammod memorized it, and passed it down to his people.

And yes, the bible is about 600 years older I think. But, if you are a Muslim, this is the way that it was meant to be. This is because Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, and he was just spreading Allah's word. Jesus' best teaching was "Treat others as you would like to be treated" (at least that is what I think that Muslims believe his best teaching was).

I'm not totally sure about the last part of your post, but everything you said was right.

Angrist, the Qur'aan wasn't written by one person... It was firstly memorised by that one person, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, over a period of time. He was memorising what the angel Gabriel revealed to him, the words of God. He couldn't have written it, as he couldn't read nor write. One person came up with the idea to copy down the memorisation. So the Qur'aan wasn't written by people, but copied.

[Joeiss]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
I'm not totally sure about the last part of your post, but everything you said was right.

Angrist, the Qur'aan wasn't written by one person... It was firstly memorised by that one person, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, over a period of time. He was memorising what the angel Gabriel revealed to him, the words of God. He couldn't have written it, as he couldn't read nor write. One person came up with the idea to copy down the memorisation. So the Qur'aan wasn't written by people, but copied.

Well, at the Mosque that I went to in November, the guy said that, I think. Well, at least I remember him saying that about Jesus... could be wrong though.

[Shadow_Link]

Originally posted by Joeiss
Well, at the Mosque that I went to in November, the guy said that, I think. Well, at least I remember him saying that about Jesus... could be wrong though.

Oh, I don't know whether you're right or wrong, I wasn't sure myself .

You are probably right though... I'll try and find out.

[Jewels]

i am christian, even though i quit going to church like when i was little and ever since we got a new minister and our church i just dont like him and how he runs things, the last one was the bomb, well anywho.. all i had to say

[Joeiss]

I think the only thing stopping me from converting to Islam is by weed and alcohol adiction... well, not weed anymore.. i have been off that since septemeber... but alcohol... ye

[Bond]

Originally posted by Shadow_Link
Oh, I don't know whether you're right or wrong, I wasn't sure myself .

You are probably right though... I'll try and find out.

Shadow Link, how does Islam address democracy, women's rights, and people's freedom to choose their own destiny?

And I have an odd feeling Shadow Link invited Almansurah to debate...

[Joeiss]

Women's rights are great in the Islam religion. I do not know the major details, but Allah created men and women as equals.

Also, if you were wondering about the veils that the women wear. This is not because they are under harsh laws where they are forced to wear veils. They wear them because it says in the Qu'raan that men should only look at women from behind a curtain or something... To prevent impure thoughts and such before marriage.

Yep... I think that is correct... Or else I just totally gave you guys the wrong information on a religion that I only know some stuff about, lol

[quiet mike]

I am a christian. Being a christian was first an insult the roman empire gave to the followers of Christ. It became the name of the believers. The christian faith has devided in time in many cults:
- Orthodox
- Catholic
- Lutheran
- Protestant
- Calvinistic
- Methodist
- Bapthist
- Penticostal
- Covenant
- Neoprotestant
- Jehova's Whitnesses

I personally am a penticostal, and believ that only by receiving the sacrifice of Jesus as the remedy of our sinfull lives you can go to Heaven, which I believe it exists. Hell also exists, but it is not necesarely a place with fire. Satan is not a two horned red beast with a triton in his hands. He was the mightiest of all angels and now he comes as an angel of light in order to decieve people and make them follow in his suffering since Hell was made for him and his angels that followed him and not for humans. But all those that follow Satan are to go where he is going.



From the discussion I see here I want to clear something for my faith and you go search if I'm telling the truth or not.

The Bible has no contradictions!
What Almansurah posted is very hard to follow if you don't know the Bible. But if you read all 4 gospels, you will see that they don't argue of who was at the tomb, how the stone was moved, but they look from different perspectives. One only follows Maria Magdalene, the others follow two or more of the women that went that Sunday morning. And even though it was told 4 different ways, it was dawn. And I can go on about all the things that were posted and show you how it's just a different perspective on the same thing.

The Qu'raan was written by more than one person but since it was something memorized word by word, they all knew the same exact thing.
The Bible was also written by more persons, but they each wrote the way they saw or heared (Luke) the things (in the Gospels). But there is no contradiction anywhere in the bible, where it is said something about an event and being contradicted in another place. It is the same thing happening the same way, viewed from a different perspective.

[Almansurah]

Originally posted by Joeiss
Women's rights are great in the Islam religion. I do not know the major details, but Allah created men and women as equals.

Also, if you were wondering about the veils that the women wear. This is not because they are under harsh laws where they are forced to wear veils. They wear them because it says in the Qu'raan that men should only look at women from behind a curtain or something... To prevent impure thoughts and such before marriage.

Yep... I think that is correct... Or else I just totally gave you guys the wrong information on a religion that I only know some stuff about, lol

Wow, you know a lot. Infact, some Muslims wouldn't have even said it better than you have stated there. And yes you're deffinitely correct on what you've said.

*Agrees with above.