Nintendo--VS--Microsoft

[TheGame]

Userbase has nothing to do with a company leaving an industry. If that was the case, Apple with 4% of the PC market would be long gone. In reality, they're not gone, and they're profiting. Nintendo is no different. It doesn't matter how many developers are on board, it doesn't matter how many people own your system. What matters if profits.

I think "money" matters more than "profits"... the more 'money' you are willing to blow to stop your system from floping directly effects how long you are going to stay on the shelf... more so than profits.

DC made more profits than Xbox, but that doesn't mean Sega had a chance in hell at staying on the shelves longer, does it?

I saw in a interview on G4TV that MS isn't even trying to make a dime of profit for both the Xbox and Xbox 2 generations... MS is in it for the long haul. Nintendo is (and has to) think about Making money in the next 12 months, MS is thinking down the lines of "20 years from now we want to own this industry"

Which completly destroys your point of profit being more important than the user base... MS isn't losing money for thier health, they are osing money so people likeme and you will go out and buy thier console and enjoy it so they can slowly take over.

Nintendo is more worried about profit than userbase because profits is somthing Nintendo needs to stay alive... let Nintendo release one console like Xbox and they would have quit financially within a year of it's life.

Don't get me wrong though, eventually profits are important, but comparing MS to Nintendo in profits now doesn't make a lick of sense.

MS is simply gambling... they are betting money, and because they have tons of money to lose, losing isn't even a problem, but when they lose enough times they will have to get up and leave before they throw too much money away... As long as MS continues to grow as far as the userbase, they will be sticking around for a while... if Xbox 2 does worse than Xbox (not financially, but user base wise), well, lol, that's the end of Microsoft in the gaming industry.

MS is playing for mind share and in the end will try to profit... Nintendo isn't playing for mind share at all, only profits.

If PSP beats GBA, or GBA's big brother (whatever that may be called), Nintendo is doomed because they lost thier easy form of profit and thier mind share.

So to break my Post down:

Microsoft lives if: Each generation thier Mind share gets larger.

Nintendo lives if: They continue making a big profit

Microsoft drops out if: Thier Money wasting experiment doesn't work and Xbox 2 is outsold by it's predicessor.

Nintendo dies if: They stop making a huge profit, and GBA is over ran by PSP.

I think that they both may survive... for a couple of reasons.

1) I don't see GBA being completly killed off

2) Obviously MS buying it's user base is working because they are tied with the second biggest gaming console manufactuer in the world in it's first outting. (not quite Psx, but eh, do you really think Psx would have stood a chance released side by side with N64? )

You also gotta take into account that MS won't need to advertize half as hard next time around, and they don't have to sit there and buy out developer after developer again. They also don't have to pay to introduce Xbox live again...

If MS trys to make a profit on Xbox 2, they could, but I think they will still be trying to put more into dominating the mind share... a Sega buyout right before the start of Next gen looks extremely likely imo.

[Rndm_Perfection]

And the long awaited question... Does it matter?

[cube]

I think that Microsoft should stop making systems with so much power that will never be used, also stop including hard drives, and stop including the modems. yes i know i sound crazy, they are nice things to have, but they cost a lot of money, the average buyer doesnt know how much more powerfull xbox is then ps2, a mom at best buy looking to buy her kid a console wont know the difference. They would definitly be much much more successfull if they put the money into getting some exclusive AAA titles for their console, along with putting more ads out on tv. You might think they have enough ads as is but its better to spend that 100 dollars they are using to buy that fancy hard drive and modem on something that people will remember when shopping. Growth is exponential, if you start out with a **** load of people talking about xbox, the **** load of people who heard from their freinds will tell others. This is what i think happened with the ps2.

[GameKinG]

Nintendo makes a lot of money. Compared to MS its not that much, but Its a lot to keep a company above stable. Nintendo has stood the test of time for over 100 years, Im sure there were hard times in there somewhere, but they managed to pull through, and now their very wealthy, even if they have to battle to keep second place...

[Stonecutter]

Originally Posted by cube

I think that Microsoft should stop making systems with so much power that will never be used, also stop including hard drives, and stop including the modems. yes i know i sound crazy, they are nice things to have, but they cost a lot of money, the average buyer doesnt know how much more powerfull xbox is then ps2, a mom at best buy looking to buy her kid a console wont know the difference. They would definitly be much much more successfull if they put the money into getting some exclusive AAA titles for their console, along with putting more ads out on tv. You might think they have enough ads as is but its better to spend that 100 dollars they are using to buy that fancy hard drive and modem on something that people will remember when shopping. Growth is exponential, if you start out with a **** load of people talking about xbox, the **** load of people who heard from their freinds will tell others. This is what i think happened with the ps2.

I Know the difference, and people who own an xbox generally know the difference.

So much power that it will never be used? Oh no, it's used, it's just that maybe 1/3 of the games on xbox are ps2 ports and developers are too lazy to optomize the games. If you ever wonderd why so many xbox owners hate the ps2, that's the reason why.

And anyone who owns and xbox can tell you just how AWESOME the harddrive is.

[One Winged Angel]

I have an XBox, and yes, the harddrive is awesome.

[cube]

Originally Posted by Stonecutter

I Know the difference, and people who own an xbox generally know the difference.
And anyone who owns and xbox can tell you just how AWESOME the harddrive is.

yeah, i know you know the difference and i know how awesome it is but you, are not the average customer. I was talking about what would be best for business not what would be most enjoyable for you.

Originally Posted by Stonecutter

So much power that it will never be used? Oh no, it's used, it's just that maybe 1/3 of the games on xbox are ps2 ports and developers are too lazy to optomize the games. If you ever wonderd why so many xbox owners hate the ps2, that's the reason why.

And i dont know if youll believe me but thats EXACTLY what i was trying to say, most games are gonna be multiconsole or ports, so they arent made to use that power, and so, it isnt used.This is also why i said ms should try to get more excusive titles, titles that were made to run on that level of power, not **** that was made to run on a 5 year old ps2.
So, dont flame me as i totally understand what youre thinking.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by cube

I think that Microsoft should stop making systems with so much power that will never be used, also stop including hard drives, and stop including the modems. yes i know i sound crazy, they are nice things to have, but they cost a lot of money, the average buyer doesnt know how much more powerfull xbox is then ps2, a mom at best buy looking to buy her kid a console wont know the difference. They would definitly be much much more successfull if they put the money into getting some exclusive AAA titles for their console, along with putting more ads out on tv. You might think they have enough ads as is but its better to spend that 100 dollars they are using to buy that fancy hard drive and modem on something that people will remember when shopping. Growth is exponential, if you start out with a **** load of people talking about xbox, the **** load of people who heard from their freinds will tell others. This is what i think happened with the ps2.

LOL.

Watch a hard drive and modem become a standard next generation. And you'll be saying how smart Nintendo was to have included it.

[Jonbo298]

I wouldn't mind if the next consoles had the HD and the modem built in. Just as long as the cost doesn't go up by $100 (or more or less [would be better]) just to include those and any other features built in. If the cost was only say $50 more to include those built in, I wouldnt mind. But $100 extra would be a little too much.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by TheGame

I think "money" matters more than "profits"... the more 'money' you are willing to blow to stop your system from floping directly effects how long you are going to stay on the shelf... more so than profits.

DC made more profits than Xbox, but that doesn't mean Sega had a chance in hell at staying on the shelves longer, does it?

Actually, Sega didn't make any profit off of DC. But back to the main topic, you're on the wrong track, again. If you're talking which system will be successful, userbase matters. If you're talking in 20 years who might have the best system, userbase matters. We're not talking about which system will dominate the industry, we're talking about which company would completely go out of business. Right now Nintendo is doing very well, PS2 is doing very well, and Xbox is doing very poorly. Nintendo and Sony are no concearn at all. Which only leaves one company at risk for dropping out, and that's Microsoft. Big risk? No, but Nintendo and Sony wouldn't benefit from leaving the industry. If that was the case, Microsoft might as well drop Windows.

Microsoft made $8 billion in profits last year. This year, Microsoft's Home & Entertainment division is on track to lose $1 billion. If you think either Microsoft or its investors are happy with those numbers, you're crazy. Microsoft didn't plan to profit from Xbox, but you can be assured they didn't expect their losses to increase over time, and they have.

Now when you get back to who is most likely to drop out, you have three choices:

1) Sony - Would make less money
2) Nintendo - Would make less money
3) Microsoft - Would increase profits by 10%

I think it's obvious.

[PuPPeT]

Originally Posted by gekko

Microsoft made $8 billion in profits last year. This year, Microsoft's Home & Entertainment division is on track to lose $1 billion. If you think either Microsoft or its investors are happy with those numbers, you're crazy. Microsoft didn't plan to profit from Xbox, but you can be assured they didn't expect their losses to increase over time, and they have.

I don't think any one who has Microsoft share will be unhappy at the mo as they could be on the end of the biggest share holder pay out of all time!!!! Also the Home & Entertainment division of Microsoft was around and losing money well before the Xbox was on the Scene yet it was aloud to do so for over 5 years with out compliant from share holders! How in the light of getting the biggest pay out of all time on top of ever increasing shares really don't care and will let Microsoft moving into what ever areas they want with or with out lose. At the end of the day share holders like my self are only after one thing and that’s money, if the Xbox was stopping them from getting money it would be a problem but its not so get off the subject!!!!

Oh and as for “ we’re not talking about which system will dominate the industry ”! Well you might not be talking that way cuss it makes Nintendo look so bad but the rest of us are (so get over it)!!!!! Also it a bit stupid not to talk that way the company which sales the most console in the end will make the most money back off software sales. I can pretty much guaranty with the next generation of consoles coming so fast Nintendo will not have the time to make its hardware so cheep next time round and if it does not included some of the added in extras you get with the next Sony and Microsoft console it will fail big time and you will see Nintendo full out of the home console market a lot faster then you think is possible.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by gekko

Now when you get back to who is most likely to drop out, you have three choices:

1) Sony - Would make less money
2) Nintendo - Would make less money
3) Microsoft - Would increase profits by 10%

I think it's obvious.

lol... didn't I just say: "Don't get me wrong though, eventually profits are important, but comparing MS to Nintendo in profits now doesn't make a lick of sense."

it's like a gambler... You put money out and in the end hope to get more money back from it. You are the guy standing there saying "Oh man, he just bet $1,000 that the spurs will win the NBA finals, he just lost $1,000 of his income" I am the guy saying "Well, he bet $1,000, but it's too early to say if he has 'lost' the money"

The money MS put down for Xbox to this day is the bet... and the payout goal for MS is in the long run. Nintendo's financial plans stay pretty short-term... and Sony likes to gamble too (losing around $250 on every Ps2 sold at launch in Japan, and $150 at launch in US)

as for the question of who is more likely to drop out... well, MS isn't any more likely to drop out than anybody as long as things go as planned, and right now, this is how they were planning Xbox to start off. Was Nintendo planning for GCN to have less than 15 million in it's first two years on the market? Wasn't Nintendo the ones making reports of how thier profits aren't where they want them to be?

MS (if they were stupid enough) could last forever without profit... but Nintendo not only needs a profit, a nice hulky profit. Thus, imo, making them more likely to drop out or merge.

[BreakABone]

One thing, I've never got with the Xbox profit deal is this whole planning to lose proft stuff.

I really can't imagine the board meeting

Board Member 1: So what future plans do we have?

Board Member 2: Nothing really, we already got a monopoly on the computer industry, what should we do?

Board Member 3: How about we going into the food indsutry? We can start selling MircoChips?

Board Member 1: Not a bad idea at all, but is htere much money to be mde in that?

*Board Member 2 pulls up some stats* We look to make a profit in the first couple of years, after that it's unpredictable

Board Member 1: Make a profit? No no, you got it all wrong. We are living in the dough at the moment, we need to lose money!

Board member 3: We could always go into gay porn starring Bill Gates that justin fellow keeps e-mailing for it....

Board Member 1: Someone deal with him

*Guards rush in to eliminate Board Member 3*

Board Member 1 points to the waterboy: You, you're a new board member, got any ideas?

Replacement Member: Why not start a handheld to compete with the GameBoy?

Board Member 2: That is a brilliant idea, I mean with such a monopoly on it, we would look like Apple!

Board Member 1: Even better, we could make a console to go up against Nintendo, Sony.. *Checks calender* I forget is Sega making a console today or not?

Board Member 2: I'm not quite sure sir, we can have our people on it!

Board Member 1: How much chance do you think we have of turning a profit?

Board Member 2: nintendo seems to have it's loyal fans and Sony is the "in" thing so we don't stand much of a chance.

*Eyes light up* You mean we will lose money each year?!?!

Board Member 2: I think that is about right, we can get our foot in the door, and maybe turn a profit later on.

Board Member 1: Who cares about later on, we lose money. Get to work on it now!

[TheGame]

*sigh*

MS is losing money now to build thier userbase up... and once they get a big enough mind share they won't have to spend like they do now to stay on top.

it's that simple.

If MS wouldn't have used this tactic, Xbox would have done worse than Atari Jaguar.

[Null]

except technically, your userbase drops to 0 everytime you go to release a new console. theres nothing saying your userbase will transfer over to the new console. so you have to spend just as much to market and get that system name out as you did before.

if thier losing money on every console sold.... what exactly is it they are going to do when they believe they have the correct 'userbase' ? make a cheaper system, or sell it for a whole lot more ?