Politically Incorrect: Gay Marriage

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Am I against it? HELL yes... Do I want to make my case? HELL no. ()

It would just turn into an arguement that will lead nowhere.. somthing about religion, morals, where this country came from and where it's going... I've been through this crap one too many times here, and for the sake of keeping peace, I don't want to take it there again.

I hope it's not that stupid argument where gay marriage is somehow equated to sodomy and incest. And yes, I just called that argument stupid. The counter-argument to that one is so obvious and straightforward that I won't bother to lay it out.

Originally Posted by Kitana85

Sighs I wish the 50+ year old peeps agree with you guys

Well, if the majority of us young people aren't against homosexual marriage, then there's hope yet. All we have to do is wait for all those 50+ year old peeps to die off and then the world would change.

Yeah, it's a slow process, but democracy is like that.

[TheGame]

"I hope it's not that stupid argument where gay marriage is somehow equated to sodomy and incest. And yes, I just called that argument stupid. The counter-argument to that one is so obvious and straightforward that I won't bother to lay it out."
-Mr. X-

a sin is a sin is a sin... period.

Also, thanks for calling my arguement stupid... I mean, you completly know how a gay person's mind works, right? Plus you know how incest people think too right? It's completly different right? Can't argue with that...

honestly, I don't give a damn what you think.

I'd accept a brother being married to is sister before I'd accept any type of gay union. In the end, they are just hurting themselves. Just one more step in the wrong direction.

But anyway... the way I see it, a sin is a sin, is a sin. What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. Most people can tell the difference, some can't. I think Gay people can't.

This is just what I believe, you can question it all you want, but you can't change it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

"I hope it's not that stupid argument where gay marriage is somehow equated to sodomy and incest. And yes, I just called that argument stupid. The counter-argument to that one is so obvious and straightforward that I won't bother to lay it out."
-Mr. X-

a sin is a sin is a sin... period.

Also, thanks for calling my arguement stupid... I mean, you completly know how a gay person's mind works, right? Plus you know how incest people think too right? It's completly different right? Can't argue with that...

honestly, I don't give a damn what you think.

I'd accept a brother being married to is sister before I'd accept any type of gay union. In the end, they are just hurting themselves. Just one more step in the wrong direction.

But anyway... the way I see it, a sin is a sin, is a sin. What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. Most people can tell the difference, some can't. I think Gay people can't.

This is just what I believe, you can question it all you want, but you can't change it.

Lets disect this argument for a moment:

1) We live in a secular society, not a religious one. Your religious ideals of "sin" based on the bible have nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal under out constitution.

2) Ok, how does being gay equate to incest? And lets try to not make too much of a stretch here when you attempt to explain.

3) You ask us if we know whats going on in a gay person's mind. Well, do you? Didn't think so. In fact most modern evidence suggests that gay people are born that way. Wait a second... aren't all men created in God's image???? GOD'S A BI-SEXUAL!!!!! Mind blowing...

Also, if you are going to attempt to back up the legal aspects of why gay marriage should be banned, lets keep religion out of it, as it has no place in our government. I'm interested in your non-religious arguments.

As for religious arguments, if all men are made with free will according to the bible, why should we make gay marriage illegal considering it doesn't HURT ANYONE? Isn't it up to God to make that judgement when they die? I also remember something about "judging" in the bible too, and how we humans shouldn't do it.

[Bond]

Well, lets separate this.

I was talking about legalizing gay marriage. Justin's only case right now is a religious one, which would obviously not hold up.

If we are talking about accepting gays into the Christian or whichever Church then he does have a religious argument.

Although both of his arguments are wrong because he turned down by McNair/Favre trade.

By the way, does anyone see Church attendance going way down in the near future?

[Jonbo298]

I finally gave it enough posts to get a general idea of what gt'ers think.

I for one am not against gay marriages. If 2 men or 2 women want to marry, let them! But we live in a society where morals/religion is taken into affect waaay too much. I'm not saying we shouldn't base everything around religion and morals, because there are some scenarios where it just is too wrong. But if 2 men or 2 women want to get married, its their choice, not the govt's choice.

*On Bonds Last Question*
Attendance might go down. There will be people out there who will probably send death threats, hate mail, or nasty phone calls to the (I dont want to start a stereotype, but I dont remember his name) "gay bishop". I hope whomever does attempt it (and you know it will happen), gets prosecuted to the fullest extent because he/she will deserve it.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

Well, lets separate this.

I was talking about legalizing gay marriage. Justin's only case right now is a religious one, which would obviously not hold up.

If we are talking about accepting gays into the Christian or whichever Church then he does have a religious argument.

Like I said in my first post, let them get married, but don't make it manditoy or and church or pastor to marry them.

Although both of his arguments are wrong because he turned down by McNair/Favre trade.

lol, now honestly, you expect me to trade my first pick for just McNair?

As for everybody else's posts, I didn't read past a couple of lines

I will read and reply in another post

[Joeiss]

Originally Posted by Bond

By the way, does anyone see Church attendance going way down in the near future?

Nope. Most of the Christians that I know either a) support gay marriage or b) just don't give a damn.

Going to Church is to learn about Jesus and what he did. We also learn how to apply his teachings to our everyday life. He taught us not to discriminate against anyone, so I will not discriminate against homosexual people. It's that simple.

[Bond]

Justin, the bottom line is that you have a religious, but not a political argument. All you need for a religious argument is your faith, for a political argument you actually need some factual points. The only political argument I could think of against gay marriage is that you could turn it into a society issue... but that still shouldn't work.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

Justin, the bottom line is that you have a religious, but not a political argument. All you need for a religious argument is your faith, for a political argument you actually need some factual points.

exactly, thus the reason it's pointles to argue, wht I see as fact and what sombody else sees as fact could be two completly different things that can't be proven either way.

The only thing I agree on with people in this thread is that gay people don't hurt anybody else physically.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Lets disect this argument for a moment:

1) We live in a secular society, not a religious one. Your religious ideals of "sin" based on the bible have nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal under out constitution.

2) Ok, how does being gay equate to incest? And lets try to not make too much of a stretch here when you attempt to explain.

3) You ask us if we know whats going on in a gay person's mind. Well, do you? Didn't think so. In fact most modern evidence suggests that gay people are born that way. Wait a second... aren't all men created in God's image???? GOD'S A BI-SEXUAL!!!!! Mind blowing...

Also, if you are going to attempt to back up the legal aspects of why gay marriage should be banned, lets keep religion out of it, as it has no place in our government. I'm interested in your non-religious arguments.

As for religious arguments, if all men are made with free will according to the bible, why should we make gay marriage illegal considering it doesn't HURT ANYONE? Isn't it up to God to make that judgement when they die? I also remember something about "judging" in the bible too, and how we humans shouldn't do it.

lol... read my other arguements for 'religios' answers.

As for non-religious reasons to make it illegal, I have nothing against it... my whole bias is based religion. I have hinted at it many times in this thread, but I would like to make it clear.

Game, say the tables are turned. Say being gay is the norm both socially and religiously. But you're born heterosexual and have absolutely no attraction to other men and even find it disgusting. So, knowing this, you would never EVER take a woman as your wife or see one romantically? You would never have sex with a woman or have act on your erotic thoughts?

lol... of course I would still be who I am... But this is a 'what if' question that holds no water in a arguement. If the only way to have babies remained the same, I would use that as my arguement to jutify my actions as more than just a sexual desire.

A better question would have been: what if I woke up tomorrow morning and I was a girl. Keeping all my same thoughs about women. In that case I would have to chose between my faith and my fleshly desire.... and that would be a ****ed up situation...

What I would do is simply never be married, and pray about it... if I had to chose between going to hell and having sex with women, I would never touch a girl again, and just never be attracted to a guy.

-EDIT- had to make this more clear

I would not have any sexual relationship of any type with anybody.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

I would not have any sexual relationship of any type with anybody.

So you never plan on having sex with anyone ever?

BTW, but "lol" in front of your posts does not validate your opinions nor invalidate those who disagree with you. It comes off more as a nervous defense mechanism.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

So you never plan on having sex with anyone ever?

If I were gay I wouldn't... I don't plan on doing any sins, because in a way, that's commiting a sin in itself. If I were planning to ave sex with a girl (if I were a girl) I might as well be planning on robbing a bank and killing sombody... Either way I'm hurting myself, and I would pay for it.

They can adopt kids, it's not like we don't have plenty out there who need families.

And if you really want to go along the lines that humans need to reproduce to exist, they can reproduce as well as straight. If there are only 4 people left, 2 male, 2 female, and they're all gay, they may feel no sexual attraction to the opposite sex, but they can still have sex and reproduce. The gay men could help the lesbian couple have kids. Just need to learn to cooperate with one another.

they could... but I have heard that it's extremely hard for a virgin woman to go through child birth. I don't want to go through the details. just hope thre of those people are doctors.

-EDIT-

One Winged Angel has a bit more 'personal' experience in this subject than you or me.... To be honest, I am shocked that he didn't take your side full on.

[GameMaster]

Live and let live.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

If I were gay I wouldn't...

Thats very easy to say when your looking from the outside in. Try walking a mile in another man's shoes before condemning them.

[playa_playa]

I'm dismayed to find that there have been no compelling or cogent arguments against gay marriages in this thread. And before any logic-bereft individual accuses me of being homophobic, let me just say that I have no stance on the issue. But as things stand, there are sound reasons for the government to oppose the legalization of gay marriages.

Changing norms in a society invariably presents a predicament. That is, until the norm in question has been determined to be evil or inhumane, there is no sound justification to change it. Why should there be? Many people oppose the right to bear arms. The reason that the second amendment has not been declared unconstitutional, however, is the fact that there has been no clinching evidence that it is somehow evil, inhumane, unconstitutional, or unjust.

Gay marriages present a similar question: do we have a justification to change the existing laws (therefore, changing the societal norms) in favor of gay marriage? Well, would that decision not depend on whether being gay is absolutely intrinsic? In other words, what if it's the case that homosexuality is strictly a learned behavior? That, noone is born gay, but are conditioned to be gay through trauma, accidents or etc (I'm not advocating that such is the case with homosexuality; I'm just asking why should the laws be changed if this were the case)? And in which case, the person could be reconditioned to be straight? Societies do not and should not change its norms to cater to those that are deviant to them. It should be the other way around. After all, do we not tell drug addicts that although they are clinically addicted, they should still seek help and become sober (thereby being readmitted to the society's norms)?

As far as I've been paying attention, there has been no absolute evidence that there is a "gay gene" or that there is some hereditary condition that forces a person to be homosexual. And until that datum is ascertained, do you not think that we should reserve our judgement intent on changing our laws and norms? Most of you, obviously, do not think so. Since most of you for gay marriages seem to think that "being gay is pretty much hereditary (nice evidence!)" it is the case that homosexuality is intrinsic. Well, show me some data to support that. Last time I checked, not even the human genome project has been able to accomplish this.

It's a very, very simple inference. Seriously, just because a lot of people start saying that marrying animals (this has happened already), your family members, inanimate objects or what have you should be legal, does that mean we should change the laws to cater them? I mean, when does it stop?