Your Religion!

[mickydaniels]

I don't see how the big bang theory makes any type of sense at all. Let's use an example of a recent explosion that we're all aware of on September 11th. After the planes made the buildings go BOOM, and they were still standing, was anything in some kind of perfect structure, order or anything. I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

[TheGame]

Yes... God is the simple explination.

The Big Bang Theory is suspect... things just don't appear from nothing, especially somthing as complex as life.

Think about the most powerful super computer in the world... the technology that build that is trillions of years behind the technology it would take to build a whole new race of people who can think and survive like humans from scratch. And keep in mind I'm comparing building to building. In how some think we were created, we would have just had to been made by the environment from nothing with nothing aiding us.

People say we grew from organisims... where did they come from? Somewhere down the line somthing put us here... I would believe that before I could believe 'It just happend'

We just happen to be the smartest being on this planet, in the perfect situation..... how and why?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I don't see how the big bang theory makes any type of sense at all. Let's use an example of a recent explosion that we're all aware of on September 11th. After the planes made the buildings go BOOM, and they were still standing, was anything in some kind of perfect structure, order or anything. I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

The Big Bang Theory isn't an explosion that could take down two buildings. In this case, you're talking about a very small explosion (it may have killed 2000+ people, but the explosion is very small). On the other hand, the Big Bang would've been a massive explosion, nothing you could ever dream or think of, it would've been an explosion of 100s of billions of km in diameter, releasing massive amounts of Hydrogen in the process. It is said that all other elements (besides Helium, because Hydrogen and Helium are the two most abundant elements in the Universe) were born from Hydrogen through intense nuclear and chemical reactions, which would result in the necessary elements like Oxygen, which would later form Water, with the help of Hydrogen.

When thinking about the Big Bang Theory, it is much more complex than just a regular explosion like you've seen on tv or in movies. This type of explosion would probably wipe out our solar system in a matter of minutes, and like I said, it would release HUGE amounts energy through fusion and/or fission processes. Now, as far as I know, there is no theory on how the explosion actually ccured. I may be wrong, however. But the point I am trying to make is that the Big Bang Theory is much more complex than what you may believe, and because you don't understand the complex nature of physics, you, and many others, will shrug the Big Bang Theory as simply being impossible.

And, I must comemnt on one more thing:

Originally Posted by TheGame

We just happen to be the smartest being on this planet, in the perfect situation..... how and why?

I've always wondered why the Earth happens to be in the "perfect place". Sometimes I think it could've simply been a coincedence. Why was Pluto put in such a cold part of our solar system? Perhaps that was also randomly formed. These geological processes take billions of years to develop, not something that could happen overnight. And because of that, I do find it hard to believe something simply put us here. Maybe something did in fact guide us here, but with all the complex natures of the Universe, it is extremely hard for me to believe that one being could simply create all of this. Maybe this being helped start the Universe's expansion, but I believe everythign else was formed by the geological processes that take billions of years to do develop. Then again... that's just me. Because I'm not Religous, I see things from an entire different perspective than those who are.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by Crono

The Big Bang Theory isn't an explosion that could take down two buildings. In this case, you're talking about a very small explosion (it may have killed 2000+ people, but the explosion is very small). On the other hand, the Big Bang would've been a massive explosion, nothing you could ever dream or think of, it would've been an explosion of 100s of billions of km in diameter...

The Big Bang theory believes that energy from the explosion was formed, and that energy was used to create many things.

However, I'd say the explosion would be a tad bit larget than a couple trillion km wide ¦¬Þ, seeing as how the Universe is quite possible infinitely large.


I hate infinites and paradoxs, no matter how fun they are to talk about. "There are infinite real numbers between 1 and 2... and also between 6 and 1,000. Therefor, there are the same amount of numbers between both sets". Yes, by doubling infinite, you get infinite... it... makes me... angry!! *smashy smashy*

But seriously, understanding the universe and creation is out of a Gaming Forum's league.

[TheGame]

The only answer I really got from you is that you think it was a coincidence...?

You find it hard to believe somthing put us here... why? Why couldn't a being create all this if they are infinintly smarter than we can even begin to imagine?

What is your theory on the orgin of life?

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by TheGame

The only answer I really got from you is that you think it was a coincidence...?

You find it hard to believe somthing put us here... why? Why couldn't a being create all this if they are infinintly smarter than we can even begin to imagine?

What is your theory on the orgin of life?

Who, me? Err, I'm undecided. I don't believe the Big Bang theory at all. Why couldn't a being create the universe, you ask? Well, it may have been possible, but that doesn't explain "the origin". That is, if something did make the universe, then what made the "creator"? Paradoxes... paradoxes!


P.S. If there is a god, what "made" the god?

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

Who, me? Err, I'm undecided. I don't believe the Big Bang theory at all. Why couldn't a being create the universe, you ask? Well, it may have been possible, but that doesn't explain "the origin". That is, if something did make the universe, then what made the "creator"? Paradoxes... paradoxes!


P.S. If there is a god, what "made" the god?

Well, the reason we're using this "what made what" argument against the Big Bang and all that is because, in science, its supposed to be impossible to have matter come form nothing. Everything has to come form something else. yet, according to the Big Bang theory, an explosion just happened in nothingness, and created all these gasses and stuff that supposedly formed life and the planets and suns, etc.

As for your questions of what made God... Nothing did. God just is. Alwats has been. He is the origin. The Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end.

I will admit that this aspect of Christianity is the hardest for me grasp simply because it is hard to imagine someone who just is. Someone who is above time and the supposed "laws" of the universe.

*shrugs and walks away*

[Ironfoot]

I'm Roman Catholic.

[Vampyr]

Random, you should love how this thread is going, with all the randomness we are discussing.

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I don't see how the big bang theory makes any type of sense at all. Let's use an example of a recent explosion that we're all aware of on September 11th. After the planes made the buildings go BOOM, and they were still standing, was anything in some kind of perfect structure, order or anything. I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

You were expecting the september 11 explosion to make a new universe? please.

Originally Posted by TheGame

Yes... God is the simple explination.

The Big Bang Theory is suspect... things just don't appear from nothing, especially somthing as complex as life.

Think about the most powerful super computer in the world... the technology that build that is trillions of years behind the technology it would take to build a whole new race of people who can think and survive like humans from scratch. And keep in mind I'm comparing building to building. In how some think we were created, we would have just had to been made by the environment from nothing with nothing aiding us.

People say we grew from organisims... where did they come from? Somewhere down the line somthing put us here... I would believe that before I could believe 'It just happend'

We just happen to be the smartest being on this planet, in the perfect situation..... how and why?

Thats what I was trying to say, exactly. Its too many coincidences.

Originally Posted by Crono

The Big Bang Theory isn't an explosion that could take down two buildings. In this case, you're talking about a very small explosion (it may have killed 2000+ people, but the explosion is very small). On the other hand, the Big Bang would've been a massive explosion, nothing you could ever dream or think of, it would've been an explosion of 100s of billions of km in diameter, releasing massive amounts of Hydrogen in the process. It is said that all other elements (besides Helium, because Hydrogen and Helium are the two most abundant elements in the Universe) were born from Hydrogen through intense nuclear and chemical reactions, which would result in the necessary elements like Oxygen, which would later form Water, with the help of Hydrogen.

When thinking about the Big Bang Theory, it is much more complex than just a regular explosion like you've seen on tv or in movies. This type of explosion would probably wipe out our solar system in a matter of minutes, and like I said, it would release HUGE amounts energy through fusion and/or fission processes. Now, as far as I know, there is no theory on how the explosion actually ccured. I may be wrong, however. But the point I am trying to make is that the Big Bang Theory is much more complex than what you may believe, and because you don't understand the complex nature of physics, you, and many others, will shrug the Big Bang Theory as simply being impossible.

Good explanation. Thanks for setting him straight with your knowledge.

Originally Posted by Random

I hate infinites and paradoxs, no matter how fun they are to talk about. "There are infinite real numbers between 1 and 2... and also between 6 and 1,000. Therefor, there are the same amount of numbers between both sets". Yes, by doubling infinite, you get infinite... it... makes me... angry!! *smashy smashy*

I think its brilliantly interesting.

But seriously, understanding the universe and creation is out of a Gaming Forum's league.

ROFL! Thats hilarious.

P.S. If there is a god, what "made" the god?

How the hell am I supposed to know?? lol, seriously, I have a perfect explanation: "At some point in time, God just WAS" Its impossible for humans to concieve how god came to be, because he didnt "come to be." He has been alive for an eternity, which is impossible for our brains to understand.

(Im just going to use crono's quote to sum up all the quotes about Gods existance, it would take to long to quote everyone of them)

Originally Posted by Crono

Then how can God just be there? That's what doesn't make sense. Something else had to put him/her/it there.

Why? I dont get why its so hard to understand that God just was. Like Ginkasa has been saying, he is the beginning. He is Alpha, there was no one before him to create him, like I have said over and over, God just was.

Originally Posted by Shadow

No, because God exists out of time. Don't try even try to imagine it, because it's too complex for us to comprehend (seriously, it'll give you a headache trying to think about it).

God has been, and always will be. When you talk about an all powerful being, you have to try and grasp that He isn't bounded by limitations. I can;t really describe it well, but anyway...

We can't just 'be', because we aren't all powerful beings. We're born, we die, pretty simple concept. We don't have the power to create. Something other than us, (the Creator) however, does have these qualities and this power.

Something, or someone (God), has to have triggered something for the universe to begin, someone eho is not bound by space and time. You say Hydrogen is the basic element of the universe, an element that forms heeavier and more complex elements, but hang on, where did all this Hydrogen come from? If you think about it, all us humans basically made up of electrons, protons and neutrons... Now, say in the event that us coming into being was just a coincidence, do you seriously believe a bunch of electrons, neutrons and protons is suffiecient enough for the creation of a living, breathing creature, that has independant thought that can feel, hear, see and taste things? Something has to have given 'life' to these 'atoms'.

For me, the only explanation is that a Gid must exist. I can tell by just reading the Qur'an. Where there are such vivid details about the formation of a zygote in the womb. Remember, this is over 1400 years ago, hundreds of years before any scientiic knowledge was gathered on this subject (and many others). How could anyone, except the Creator know of these intricacies? The Prophet himself was illiterate, and was most definately not a scientist. They didn't have the technology back then to fully understand such detials.

(I wanted to avoid this thread because this has been done so many times before, but I guess I couldn;t resist).

Good job, Shadow_Link. It makes me posting anything regarding this pretty much obsolete, because you summed up everything I would have said.

[Edit] Attack of the link avatars. sorry about the quote mistake, shadow.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by Ginkasa

As for your questions of what made God... Nothing did. God just is. Alwats has been. He is the origin. The Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end.

If God can "just be"... then why isn't it possible for human and other life to "just be"?

[Ginkasa]

Well... Depends on what you mean. According to science, life, the universe, and everything can't "just be" out of thin air. Its supposed to be impossible for something to just appear out of thin air.

I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing. Are you saying why can't humans have just appeared from nowhere without the help from God? That's supposed to be impossible.

Then only way we could "just be" is if God made us.

Maybe if you are clearer with what exactly you're asking with that question.


*shrugs and walks away*

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

If God can "just be"... then why isn't it possible for human and other life to "just be"?

because that is a rule of where we are.... everything has a beginning and everything has an end, apparently God himself doesn't follow this because he has no beginning or end. Life has a beginning and an end, as proven to us every day.

According to the Bible god was just there... in the beginning he created the heavens and the earth, there is nothing before the beginning, period... so it's no use trying to find out. It's like trying to figure out what a world would look like if it had 7 dimensions instead of the three we have.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by TheGame

The only answer I really got from you is that you think it was a coincidence...?

You find it hard to believe somthing put us here... why? Why couldn't a being create all this if they are infinintly smarter than we can even begin to imagine?

What is your theory on the orgin of life?

1. Yes, a coincidence. Why were the Rocky Mountains formed? Why was the Pacific Ocean formed? Why were the Himalaya's formed? It was by random Gelogical processes, that's how I believe the Earth was formed. It just could've happened that the rocks from 4.7 Billion years ago stopped in a perfect orbit distance from the sun. If you don't see my point... then why are the other planets not in good places? Perhaps they were also random. Why would God put other planets there for no reason? As far as we can see, the other 8 planets are of no value to us. Mars is a giant rustball, what is the point of it? Processes like these take billions of years, and the Earth is still changing today. That, is basic Earth Science.

2. But who knows if there is a smarter being? Unless it's brain can take on 1000s of tasks at once, such creation would take thousands, if not millions of years to develop. As I stated earlier in this thread, I do not deny the existence of such a being, I just find it hard to believe, there is a huge difference. Religion vs Science is one of the oldest battle in books, I'm just trying to help Science in this thread... because most people seem to be pro-Religion (nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying).

3. I don't know how life originated. It is probably impossible for us to know. The Universe is way too big for us to study it's natural history. Chemical reactions can naturally provide the essentials for life, but when it comes to how we, humans, actually got here... I really have no idea.

[The Duggler]

It may not be the big bang, but at least, it's a better theory than believing god simply created everything. Or as the Game said, it might be something else that created us, but it certainly not happened like it's described in the bible.

Originally Posted by TheGame

The only answer I really got from you is that you think it was a coincidence...?

You find it hard to believe somthing put us here... why? Why couldn't a being create all this if they are infinintly smarter than we can even begin to imagine?

What is your theory on the orgin of life?

Some other form of life could have created us, but I also think that life was able to just "appear" on earth and then evolve in the species that we know today (humans included). Afterall, if you look at the smallest living cell, it's only formed of certains elements and there's plenty of those elements on this planet, it was only a matter of time before the right elements connect together to form something alive. I'm pretty sure that we are not far from making that process happen again, in a controlled environement. Here's a link I found: http://www.abc.net.au/pm/s72513.htm

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

But I'm sure you've seen an all powerful superbeing that can create and control everything, right?