Your Religion!

[Vampyr]

Random, you should love how this thread is going, with all the randomness we are discussing.

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I don't see how the big bang theory makes any type of sense at all. Let's use an example of a recent explosion that we're all aware of on September 11th. After the planes made the buildings go BOOM, and they were still standing, was anything in some kind of perfect structure, order or anything. I have a hard time believing that some explosion caused the planets to line up in an order, orbit the sun, and do things in set patterns like the universe does. I have never seen any explosions or heard of any explosions that cause order and structure.

You were expecting the september 11 explosion to make a new universe? please.

Originally Posted by TheGame

Yes... God is the simple explination.

The Big Bang Theory is suspect... things just don't appear from nothing, especially somthing as complex as life.

Think about the most powerful super computer in the world... the technology that build that is trillions of years behind the technology it would take to build a whole new race of people who can think and survive like humans from scratch. And keep in mind I'm comparing building to building. In how some think we were created, we would have just had to been made by the environment from nothing with nothing aiding us.

People say we grew from organisims... where did they come from? Somewhere down the line somthing put us here... I would believe that before I could believe 'It just happend'

We just happen to be the smartest being on this planet, in the perfect situation..... how and why?

Thats what I was trying to say, exactly. Its too many coincidences.

Originally Posted by Crono

The Big Bang Theory isn't an explosion that could take down two buildings. In this case, you're talking about a very small explosion (it may have killed 2000+ people, but the explosion is very small). On the other hand, the Big Bang would've been a massive explosion, nothing you could ever dream or think of, it would've been an explosion of 100s of billions of km in diameter, releasing massive amounts of Hydrogen in the process. It is said that all other elements (besides Helium, because Hydrogen and Helium are the two most abundant elements in the Universe) were born from Hydrogen through intense nuclear and chemical reactions, which would result in the necessary elements like Oxygen, which would later form Water, with the help of Hydrogen.

When thinking about the Big Bang Theory, it is much more complex than just a regular explosion like you've seen on tv or in movies. This type of explosion would probably wipe out our solar system in a matter of minutes, and like I said, it would release HUGE amounts energy through fusion and/or fission processes. Now, as far as I know, there is no theory on how the explosion actually ccured. I may be wrong, however. But the point I am trying to make is that the Big Bang Theory is much more complex than what you may believe, and because you don't understand the complex nature of physics, you, and many others, will shrug the Big Bang Theory as simply being impossible.

Good explanation. Thanks for setting him straight with your knowledge.

Originally Posted by Random

I hate infinites and paradoxs, no matter how fun they are to talk about. "There are infinite real numbers between 1 and 2... and also between 6 and 1,000. Therefor, there are the same amount of numbers between both sets". Yes, by doubling infinite, you get infinite... it... makes me... angry!! *smashy smashy*

I think its brilliantly interesting.

But seriously, understanding the universe and creation is out of a Gaming Forum's league.

ROFL! Thats hilarious.

P.S. If there is a god, what "made" the god?

How the hell am I supposed to know?? lol, seriously, I have a perfect explanation: "At some point in time, God just WAS" Its impossible for humans to concieve how god came to be, because he didnt "come to be." He has been alive for an eternity, which is impossible for our brains to understand.

(Im just going to use crono's quote to sum up all the quotes about Gods existance, it would take to long to quote everyone of them)

Originally Posted by Crono

Then how can God just be there? That's what doesn't make sense. Something else had to put him/her/it there.

Why? I dont get why its so hard to understand that God just was. Like Ginkasa has been saying, he is the beginning. He is Alpha, there was no one before him to create him, like I have said over and over, God just was.

Originally Posted by Shadow

No, because God exists out of time. Don't try even try to imagine it, because it's too complex for us to comprehend (seriously, it'll give you a headache trying to think about it).

God has been, and always will be. When you talk about an all powerful being, you have to try and grasp that He isn't bounded by limitations. I can;t really describe it well, but anyway...

We can't just 'be', because we aren't all powerful beings. We're born, we die, pretty simple concept. We don't have the power to create. Something other than us, (the Creator) however, does have these qualities and this power.

Something, or someone (God), has to have triggered something for the universe to begin, someone eho is not bound by space and time. You say Hydrogen is the basic element of the universe, an element that forms heeavier and more complex elements, but hang on, where did all this Hydrogen come from? If you think about it, all us humans basically made up of electrons, protons and neutrons... Now, say in the event that us coming into being was just a coincidence, do you seriously believe a bunch of electrons, neutrons and protons is suffiecient enough for the creation of a living, breathing creature, that has independant thought that can feel, hear, see and taste things? Something has to have given 'life' to these 'atoms'.

For me, the only explanation is that a Gid must exist. I can tell by just reading the Qur'an. Where there are such vivid details about the formation of a zygote in the womb. Remember, this is over 1400 years ago, hundreds of years before any scientiic knowledge was gathered on this subject (and many others). How could anyone, except the Creator know of these intricacies? The Prophet himself was illiterate, and was most definately not a scientist. They didn't have the technology back then to fully understand such detials.

(I wanted to avoid this thread because this has been done so many times before, but I guess I couldn;t resist).

Good job, Shadow_Link. It makes me posting anything regarding this pretty much obsolete, because you summed up everything I would have said.

[Edit] Attack of the link avatars. sorry about the quote mistake, shadow.

[Crono]

But... we have no facts that a God actually exists. And like Ginkasa said, I guess this is just where the debate ends... neither side can win because both sides do not have the right facts to prove the existence of a God.

[Bond]

Although you can also not disprove the existence of God. So you have to question which side the burden of proof lands on? And it lands on neither.

[Shadow_Link]

Uh, it was me that posted that, not Ginkasa

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Link

Uh, it was me that posted that, not Ginkasa

Yeah. Vampyr, the big quote at the end of your post is from Shadow_Link. Not me.


*shrugs and walks away*

[Shadow_Link]

Originally Posted by Crono

But... we have no facts that a God actually exists. And like Ginkasa said, I guess this is just where the debate ends... neither side can win because both sides do not have the right facts to prove the existence of a God.

But back to replying. My post basically says that there had to be something to create the Hydrogen, and for anything to occur has to point towards a God, a being with immense power. That is the only facts we have on the matter, the fact that Hydrogen didn;t just appear by itself. The fact that electron, neutrons and protons such as ourselves can interact with each other in different ways than say, stars and planets, which are made of the same things we are. There had to be something that allowed life to be breathed into us, and not other things.

I'm really confused by this coincidence stuff really. I mean, with so many coincidences, why isn't it that some new form of life just pops out of nowehere in front of your very own eyes? Coincidences are random right? Then why aren't the sort of coincidnces that supposedly formed us and the universe still occuring till this very day? How can coincidences just stop? It's not as if coincidences have their own path of thought .

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Link

Again, like I said, not Ginkasa .

No actually, I said that one

Originally Posted by Ginkasa

In any case, this is probably where at least this part of the debate ends. Once we get to where I'm saying "You just have to have faith" and you're saying "I can't believe such a thing" then there's really nothing we can do to change the other's mind.

*shrugs and walks away*

[Shadow_Link]

Originally Posted by Ginkasa

No actually, I said that one

My bad!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Shadow_Link

Again, like I said, not Ginkasa .

But back to replying. My post basically says that there had to be something to create the Hydrogen, and for anything to occur has to point towards a God, a being with immense power. That is the only facts we have on the matter, the fact that Hydrogen didn;t just appear by itself. The fact that electron, neutrons and protons such as ourselves can interact with each other in different ways than say, stars and planets, which are made of the same things we are. There had to be something that allowed life to be breathed into us, and not other things.

I'm really confused by this coincidence stuff really. I mean, with so many coincidences, why isn't it that some new form of life just pops out of nowehere in front of your very own eyes? Coincidences are random right? Then why aren't the sort of coincidnces that supposedly formed us and the universe still occuring till this very day? How can coincidences just stop? It's not as if coincidences have their own path of thought .

Oops, I'm sorry. Lol... like Vamypr I got confused with the avatars.

I get what you're saying about Hydrogen. Of course, right now my knowledge in Physics is quite small, because I'm only in High School... but I'm just not sure what to think anymore. We can't prove there is a God, and we can't prove there isn't one.

And... the coincedence thing is just one of many theories on how things came to be. It may not make sense in some ways, but it's just another idea.

Edit: Heh, "oops" again. It was indeed Ginkasa who said it.

[Rndm_Perfection]

I'll forget about science right now and think about faith.

If you can believe that God just "is", then why can't you believe the universe just "is"? You (err, Ginkasa I believe... crazy avatars) said that the Universe cannot be, that there must be something to create it... so therefor there is a god. However, how can a god exist without being created? And to Shadow Link... it shouldn't be too hard to comprehend, considering humans were the ones who thought of it!

What I believe could be true (based on the logic of the majority on this thread)... is that the universe is your "God". It fits the profile, I guess. If it was a super being, or whatever, it then would not need to be created. And, the universe already had all the materials it needed, floating on one massive canvas (empty space). What I also find interesting, is the "fact" that the universe is infinitely large (or so we think). If it is infinitely large, it would be impossible to have been created by anything, for it'd take an infinite amount of time to create, as it would never be finished... so forth. However, if it "just was" (like what you claim God's origin would be), then it can defy all logic, be any size, anywhere, never ending, never starting. Then we have to go into those apradoxes which I despise so very much under normal circumstances.

And to Shadow Link (I think...) humans can create life, they may not have a real beginning, and they may not have a real end. Just like how your dreams are erased from your memory before you wake (sometimes), perhaps your previous consciousness could be erased. Yet, in dreams we believe it is the present, otherwise we'd wake up.

Now I'm going to have to contradict a previous post of mine and say that maybe we are "dreaming". Yes, it is quite possible that we are just a collective consciousness with the illusions of our mere thought. And, like said in MIB, "we all knew the Earth was flat, and then we all knew the Earth was the center of the universe". I quote that for a really awkward reason. And that reason is moderately related to Vampyr's crazy idea that we have to "believe" something for it to be true (or something like that). Basically, perhaps the Earth WAS flat until proven differently, and perhaps the Earth WAS the center of the universe.. so forth. But, once people with super high charisma can convince otherwise, the majority BELIEVES otherwise, and therefor the universe changes.

Blah blah, contradict this... contradict that. Basically, since we keep looking far into the universe, we keep discovering infinite space. That space is limited by our majority belief. And since our majority has the potential of believing an infinite amount of possibilities... the universe therefor has the potential of being infinitely large.


Right now, I believe that I am a student that needs to find a job, is obsessed with philosophy and therefor animé, and am uncertain about my future. It'll be hard to convince me otherwise. I don't want to believe more than that... and I don't want to know "the origin". However, I do admit that it is fun to figure it out (yes, I had problem solver books as a child).


Finally:

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Random, you should love how this thread is going, with all the randomness we are discussing.

Ugh, do you see what it's done to me?

Aaand: If the majority of humans did not believe in God, would it die?

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

I'll forget about science right now and think about faith.

Oh... but you can't do that. Faith and science are intertwined. They are one in the same. As Albert Einstein said:

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

Aaand: If the majority of humans did not believe in God, would it die?

Of course. Humans fund religion, not God.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by Bond

Oh... but you can't do that. Faith and science are intertwined. They are one in the same. As Albert Einstein said:

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."


Of course. Humans fund religion, not God.

Funny that you replied to the very first and last sentences of my post ¦¬Þ.

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Random, you should love how this thread is going, with all the randomness we are discussing.



You were expecting the september 11 explosion to make a new universe? please.

No, sir. Obviously, the 9/11 explosion would be minor to the 'big bang.' Which makes it that much harder to believe that an explosion could cause the order seen int the universe and on this planet.
An explosion is an explosion.
Things go BOOM!

Originally Posted by nWoCHRISnWo

But I'm sure you've seen an all powerful superbeing that can create and control everything, right?

Never have.
Never will.
Were you trying to make a point?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

No, sir. Obviously, the 9/11 explosion would be minor to the 'big bang.' Which makes it that much harder to believe that an explosion could cause the order seen int the universe and on this planet.
An explosion is an explosion.
Things go BOOM!

You're wrong. An explosion just isn't an explosion. You mean to tell me that an Hydrogen-Bomb Explosion is just the same as the explosions made on 9/11? All you're doing is comparing size, you need to look at the physics of the different reactions in the explosions. An explosion from an.. H-Bomb, let's say, is completely different because it uses different processes. Also, as I stated before... those who do not have even a slight understanding of physics will probably completely deny this.

[nWoCHRISnWo]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

Never have.
Never will.
Were you trying to make a point?

The point is a lot of religious people (you for example) say they find it hard to believe that everything was created from a huge explosion (or the big bang theory) because they've never seen anything like that before and it seems too coincidental. Of course, you believe in god though, so I assume you've seen a superbeing bla bla bla before then?

And does nobody else think that the chances that we just haven't figured out how everything was created is a lot more likely than everything that has been thrown about (god, big bang, etc)? Just because god seems to be the most simple and best answer from the different theories that we know about RIGHT NOW doesn't mean it's true.