Zelda: Spirit Tracks

[Thespis721]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I liked playing as a wolf. Maybe the twilight itself was gimmicky because it had been done before (and better).

I've just read 2 reviews of Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. I think a re-imagination like this could work for Zelda. This SH game got rid of the tedious tasks and replaced them by new, fun puzzles. It changed how you explore the world (no more locked doors etc.).

Who feels anything for making a list of essential and non-essential Zelda aspects?

Off the top of my head?

Essential - Sword and shield combat, epic storyline, Ganon (I'm sorry, but every time they try and create a story outside of Ganon, it seems to fall flat), keeping with the overall storyline, quests within quests, weapon/shield/clothing upgrades, unique worlds and villages and cultures

Not essential - puzzles for puzzles sake, a friend to tag along, water/ice temples, central temples

[TheSlyMoogle]

Mmm I just always felt like the handhelds were the prime place to experiment.

[Ginkasa]

Originally Posted by Thespis721

Ganon (I'm sorry, but every time they try and create a story outside of Ganon, it seems to fall flat)

I disagree. Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask (which have nothing to do with Hyrule or Zelda, much less Ganon) have the most poignant and emotional stories out of any of the other Zelda titles, except for maybe The Wind Waker.

Re: The Sly Moogle

I think you could make an argument for both experimenting in both formats. Handheld games would be better off experimenting with gimmicky, one-off ideas like linked-games (OoS and OoA) or changing your size (TMC) that won't carry on for the rest of the series. I think if Nintendo wants to alter the way future Zelda games are made or change the inherent formula they need to do it on the console to make the biggest impact.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Windwaker and Mask were good fucking games, aside from the boat in windwaker and the fucking triforce gauntlet at the end of the game. Other than that I loved windwaker. Mask was very good. Mostly it was entirely based on subquests and fetch type quests but it was good. Basically they had a lot of aspects to them that were departures from the series. Both of them equally different. Windwaker had a great story, a lot of fun, and the animation was great I don't care what anyone says, cel shading hasn't been done that well before and since that game. I'm sorry so many people couldn't get past the cartoon look but it added so much to the game. Mask was great too in that it focused so much on side events and the time aspect was awesome, and it did have a really touching story. Link just wanted his Navi back... Is that too much to ask for?

Unfortunately now they're just recycling those tired ass gimmicks and it's getting old.

I see OoT as the perfect Zelda. It basically should have been the last time they tried to make Zelda in the same way that they kept doing it. Everyone complains how the successive games just aren't like OoT. Well that's okay. It was Zelda perfection, and then Master quest came along and just made it even better. Master quest was so fucking hard. I feel there's not anything more that can be squeezed out of that.

I just see Twilight as a flaming pile of beautiful garbage. It's the worst offender. Useless weapons, stupid side-quests, boring story really. It was just a beautiful fucking game and decently fun while it lasted. When I finished it I just felt empty inside. Same with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

I don't know.

I think I'll just go play shadow of colossus again. That game makes me happy in ways I still don't understand.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

Windwaker and Mask were good fucking games, aside from the boat in windwaker and the fucking triforce gauntlet at the end of the game. Other than that I loved windwaker. Mask was very good. Mostly it was entirely based on subquests and fetch type quests but it was good. Basically they had a lot of aspects to them that were departures from the series. Both of them equally different. Windwaker had a great story, a lot of fun, and the animation was great I don't care what anyone says, cel shading hasn't been done that well before and since that game. I'm sorry so many people couldn't get past the cartoon look but it added so much to the game. Mask was great too in that it focused so much on side events and the time aspect was awesome, and it did have a really touching story. Link just wanted his Navi back... Is that too much to ask for?

Unfortunately now they're just recycling those tired ass gimmicks and it's getting old.

I see OoT as the perfect Zelda. It basically should have been the last time they tried to make Zelda in the same way that they kept doing it. Everyone complains how the successive games just aren't like OoT. Well that's okay. It was Zelda perfection, and then Master quest came along and just made it even better. Master quest was so fucking hard. I feel there's not anything more that can be squeezed out of that.

I just see Twilight as a flaming pile of beautiful garbage. It's the worst offender. Useless weapons, stupid side-quests, boring story really. It was just a beautiful fucking game and decently fun while it lasted. When I finished it I just felt empty inside. Same with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

I don't know.

I think I'll just go play shadow of colossus again. That game makes me happy in ways I still don't understand.

And I thought Twilight Princess was a much better game than OoT.
Opinions are fun.
Which is why you can and never will please everyone.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

And I thought Twilight Princess was a much better game than OoT.
Opinions are fun.
Which is why you can and never will please everyone.

TP was good, but this is blasphemy.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

TP was good, but this is blasphemy.

I've tried on at least 3 different occasions to give OoT a chance. Originally on the n64, and again on the Cube with the two Zelda disc and it never clicked with me.

Not sure why, I played and enjoyed a Link to the Past, I love Wind Waker and enjoy Twilight Princess.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I've tried on at least 3 different occasions to give OoT a chance. Originally on the n64, and again on the Cube with the two Zelda disc and it never clicked with me.

Not sure why, I played and enjoyed a Link to the Past, I love Wind Waker and enjoy Twilight Princess.

yeah that is weird. To be honest I was never really too enthused with the first 3 dungeons in the game, but once you're adult link the game is just amazing.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I've tried on at least 3 different occasions to give OoT a chance. Originally on the n64, and again on the Cube with the two Zelda disc and it never clicked with me.

Not sure why, I played and enjoyed a Link to the Past, I love Wind Waker and enjoy Twilight Princess.

This proves that:

A) you are a goof
or
B) Zelda games are fucking repetitive and taxing (in terms of time/dedication for gameplay) and Nintendo hasn't come up with any new ideas so OoT and TP are so similar you wouldn't be able to find differences if you played them both in your lifetime.

OoT has fishing though...oh man, love fishing.

[Angrist]

Originally Posted by Thespis721

Off the top of my head?

Essential - Sword and shield combat, epic storyline, Ganon (I'm sorry, but every time they try and create a story outside of Ganon, it seems to fall flat), keeping with the overall storyline, quests within quests, weapon/shield/clothing upgrades, unique worlds and villages and cultures

Not essential - puzzles for puzzles sake, a friend to tag along, water/ice temples, central temples

Ok I made a doc file. I probably missed a lot. Anyone feel free to add and/or reformat it. A doc file sucks, but it works best in a table.

[Ginkasa]

Throwing my two cents in with OoT vs. TP: I think Oot is much better than TP. I don't see how they can really compare on equal terms. The only thing that TP does better than OoT is having better graphics, but that's a given. Specific points:

1) Story. TP's story was/could have been good, but not as a Zelda game. Link was practically a none factor story wise; he was relegated to Midna's errand boy. Zelda and Ganon could have switched to entirely different names and it wouldn't have mattered. Everything Zelda about it felt tacked on. OoT meanwhile is the epitome of the classic Zelda story. Not that other games (MM, TWW, LA) don't have better stories, but OoT is the perfect distilled Zelda story. It has all the bare, classic essentials boiled down to pure awesome.

2) Gameplay. Everything good about TP's gameplay was taken from OoT. There was nothing good added and nothing bad taken away. They would simply be equal except for the whole "new item's only good in one dungeon" thing going on with TP. Off the top of my head I think the only item that is absolutely worthless outside of its main dungeon is the Iron Boots. And I guess maybe the different tunics if you want to count those. But everything else could be useful at other points in the game.

3) Legacy. If TP is truly remembered years from now it will be as "the game that reminded me a lot of OoT." I am still amazed, however, at the things I notice in modern games that I can trace back to OoT. There are some things the industry is finally improving and moving away from direct systems (i.e. you don't see the lock-on system as much anymore; camera controls have gotten better with the second analogue stick), but OoT definitely impacted how 3D games were made for several years to come. TP made not such innovations.

Thre are probably other items as well. Basically, I think you can say that you enjoy TP more than OoT and, I suppose, you could argue that means which is "better" is subjective. However, I don't think you could honestly argue over which is the most influential, classic, or essential.

I mean, someone could probably argue that Super Mario Sunshine is a better game than Super Mario 64 due to technical advancements, but reallY?